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Bourse de Polosson
fermeture en blague à tabac = closed with drawstring sutures?

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

courbure du bord plus prononcée que celle du haut

English translation:

The curvature of the side is more pronounced than at the top

Added to glossary by angela3thomas
May 22, 2017 17:14
6 yrs ago
French term

courbure du bord plus prononcée que celle du haut

French to English Art/Literary Archaeology ancient art
Hi again!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. The whole catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44070. Disque de miroir. - Bronze. - Haut. 0 m. 246 mill., larg. 0 m. 227 mill. Légèrement renflé et rigide au centre, flexible sur les bords; contour vaguement cordiforme, c'est-à-dire ayant la ***courbure du bord plus prononcée que celle du haut.*** Il est à remarquer que les miroirs de ce type ont la tige mince et longue en soie de couteau. Ici la tige paraît avoir été fondue avec le disque. Technique et conservation: Patine vert sombre, poussiéreuse; déchirure du bord sur un des côtés.
Earlier in the book he says: Miroirs cordiformes. - La troisième classe, je dois le reconnaître, est la plus imparfaitement définie, car elle comprend divers types qui n'ont qu'un trait de commun, à savoir l'amincissement progressif du bord inférieur, qui s'abaisse et parfois s'étrangle vers la tige. This I translated as "namely the progressive narrowing of the lower edge"
Examples of cordiform mirrors (heart-shaped, elliptical not like hearts on a greeting card):
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/470204017327220005/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/470204017327134625/
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/ZoomImage.aspx?image=http...

ATTEMPTS: contour vaguely cordiform, i.e., the curvature/slope of the edge is steeper/more protuberant than the upper one. Perhaps "edge" is the wrong translation for "bord" here?

DISCLOSURE: I tried at WordReference.com and no one could help me, but perhaps someone here gets this or has some ideas!
Thanks in advance!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 The curvature of the side is more pronounced than at the top

Discussion

Christopher Crockett May 23, 2017:
The guy is dead --long dead.

From my virtually non-existent understanding of French literary "style," I would prefer to say that he was paid to be obscure --or, at the least, "flowery."

Is "eloquent" a French word/concept? If so, then, o.k., he's Eloquent --en principe.

Angela, otOh, *is* being paid by the word.
Madeleine van Zanten May 23, 2017:
Lol... maybe he is paid by the word?
Christopher Crockett May 23, 2017:
So... why didn't he just say the damned thing is "oval" --or slightly elongated?

Or even "the curve of the disk is not a perfect circle but is slightly flattened at the top"?
Christopher Crockett May 23, 2017:
@ Madeleine Merci, madame (and that's the extent of my ability to write comprehensible French).

Your answer is enlightening --It would seem that even a very learned author, when read by an obviously accomplished native speaker, can only manage a "mere" picture of what is being described.

No wonder poor Angela (and the rest of us) have been struggling the last month or so with some of Bénéditi's limpid prose. (And now at least I don't feel so incompetent.)

I wish I could accept your "conventional way" excuse for Bénéditi's obscurity --but I cannot bring myself to believe that we are dealing here with inescapable jargon in an arcane field. The object being described is rather simple in its basic shape; so what's the problem?

Even if that were the case, "clarity of description" would be an essential criterion to be used in judging its quality, n'est-pas?

Thanks, again.
Madeleine van Zanten May 23, 2017:
A clear picture, no, an idea yes. In this particular case, I would understand that the mirror is flattened at the top. In general, I would say that those artefacts have to be described somehow, and this is maybe a conventional way of doing so?
Christopher Crockett May 22, 2017:
Makes me want to ask Bénéditi's text here makes me want to ask --and not for the first time-- one of our native French speaking colleagues, Do *you* understand what he means here?

That is to say, put aside the issue of making a translation (which requires facility in two separate languages); do you understand what he is saying *in French*?

Does his French description give you a clear picture of what this object actually looks like?

I would really like to know if an adult, educated, literate French native speaker can make sense out of "courbure du bord plus prononcée que celle du haut."

It seems to me that simple Comprehension *must* precede Translation.

Is this phrase of his Comprehensible to a native speaker?

--------

Btw, Angela, those two Pinterest pages have some quite magnificent objects on them; Thanks.

c

Proposed translations

+1
16 mins
Selected

The curvature of the side is more pronounced than at the top

I think "bord" has more of the meaning of "side" rather than "edge" or "rim" which would make sense if it was an elliptical shape.
Example sentence:

Sur le bord de la maison

On the side of the house

Peer comment(s):
agree Christopher Crockett : That would seem to be correct --once we have a picture of a similar object to go by.
19 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Your suggestion must be right. At least it makes sense. Thank you!"
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