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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)
Thread poster: Zhoudan
wherestip
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开个玩笑 Mar 31, 2008

Zhoudan wrote:

“散仙”怎么翻

电视歌手大奖赛的文化赛题,说到八仙,余秋雨说八仙是“散仙”,也就是没有上司管着的神仙,体制外的。忽然想到“散仙”英文怎么说呢。


a freelance immortal?


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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a true freelancer Mar 31, 2008

那种刚被别人管理了,又来管理别人的人,不能算a true freelancer

wherestip wrote:

Zhoudan wrote:

“散仙”怎么翻

电视歌手大奖赛的文化赛题,说到八仙,余秋雨说八仙是“散仙”,也就是没有上司管着的神仙,体制外的。忽然想到“散仙”英文怎么说呢。


a freelance immortal?


[Edited at 2008-03-31 16:38]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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德语里比较容易 Mar 31, 2008

Zhoudan wrote:

“散仙”怎么翻

电视歌手大奖赛的文化赛题,说到八仙,余秋雨说八仙是“散仙”,也就是没有上司管着的神仙,体制外的。忽然想到“散仙”英文怎么说呢。


德语里有歌词,叫做Narrenfreiheit;Freiheit就是“自由”;Narren从Narr这个字词来的,意思是“呆子”。Narr这个字不好解说,举个例子来说好了,根据司马迁史记“滑稽列传”里的叙述,中国战国时代入赘齐国的一个矮个子名唤“淳于髡”,这个家伙就是一个十足的Narr,也就是一个十足的“散仙”。 http://baike.baidu.com/view/58104.htm

淳于髡的生平和德意志民族历史上的那位Till Eulenspiegel非常相像。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Eulenspiegel 这一类的“散仙”很难定义。A freelancer immortal和a true freelancer好像都还不足以表达这种人的特质。等我想到好的说法,回头一定过来贴出。

Narrenfreiheit就是这种人享有的“自由”。



[Edited at 2008-03-31 15:20]


 
wherestip
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散仙 Mar 31, 2008



散者,即无拘无束,逍遥自在。散仙者,诸仙之末,或淡隐于街井闹市,或逍遥于深山海岛,低者不过丹卜之流,高者却堪比大罗太乙,鸿蒙至今,流传着无数光怪陆离的奇人异事。



Zhoudan,

Here are a few ideas ...

a roaming/wandering supernatural being
a spirit, a spirit with magical powers
a mythical ghost/creature

http://www.cycfoundation.org/concepts/SupernaturalBeing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit



2. A daemon sprite, or especially ghost. A ghost is usually conceived as a wandering spirit from a being no longer living, having survived the death of the body yet maintaining the mind and consciousness.





[Edited at 2008-03-31 19:47]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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We do have a term in Taiwanese for "散仙." Mar 31, 2008

wherestip wrote:

a roaming/wandering supernatural being
a spirit
a mythical ghost/creature


Anyone who is absent-minded is called "散仙" in Taiwanese. In German, we call such a person "Trottel" as I introduced the term "Globaltrottel" when I posted a song, "Un trotamundo como yo", sung by Nicola di Bari.

A "Narr (fool)" or a "Trottel (dope)" is usually not even taken seriously by his own wife, like 淳于髡 during the Warrior Time in Chinese hitory.


 
chica nueva
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It reminds me of 'knight-errant'; 'ronin' Mar 31, 2008

'八仙均为神仙中的散仙。也是惩恶扬善,济世扶贫的神仙。'

'虽然散仙和妖仙都是仙人,但他们的实力和真正的仙人比起来还是有很大的距离.

  毕竟散仙他们只是元婴渡劫而成的,没有实体不能和真正得仙人比.

  但是在修真界他们绝对可以横着走.散仙和妖仙不仅有仙人独有的仙灵之气,还有自己的仙器,和修真者的真原力和法宝根本不在一个档�
... See more
'八仙均为神仙中的散仙。也是惩恶扬善,济世扶贫的神仙。'

'虽然散仙和妖仙都是仙人,但他们的实力和真正的仙人比起来还是有很大的距离.

  毕竟散仙他们只是元婴渡劫而成的,没有实体不能和真正得仙人比.

  但是在修真界他们绝对可以横着走.散仙和妖仙不仅有仙人独有的仙灵之气,还有自己的仙器,和修真者的真原力和法宝根本不在一个档次上没法比.

  多亏他们都是修炼了不知多少年的老怪物早已经对权利和欲望失去了兴趣要不然修真界非被他们玩烂了不可.

  还有一个原因散仙和妖仙同鬼仙不同的是散仙和妖仙每千年要渡一次,而且一次比一次更加的难渡.

  可能渡过一次劫的散仙不是仙人的对手,但渡过三次以上天劫的散仙可就不是那么好对付的了.当然散仙要是想打败仙人那是决对不可能的,因为层次在那摆着的吗!''

'当然仙人和散仙不一样,散仙(和妖仙)可以在仙界和修真界来去自由,而仙人可就不同了,他们在仙界可是顶顶大名的人物,那掌管仙界的帝君们能让他们没事跑着玩?'

http://www.yixia.net/wuxiaxiaoshuo/14901/476515.html

knight in Chinese, how to say knight 中文词典翻译knight pinyin ...- [ Translate this page ]knight: [naɪt]. 1. (中世纪的)骑士,武士; 2. (中世纪的)宣誓骑士(通常为出身 ... knight errant 1. (欧洲中世纪的)游侠骑士,侠客 2. 有游侠气概的人,狂热而侠义的 ...
www.nciku.com/search/all/knight?pageNo= - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

like Robin Hood or 水滸傳


[Edited at 2008-03-31 20:35]

[Edited at 2008-03-31 20:51]

[Edited at 2008-03-31 20:52]

[Edited at 2008-03-31 20:56]

[Edited at 2008-03-31 22:52]
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wherestip
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神 与 仙 Apr 1, 2008

lai an wrote:

'八仙均为神仙中的散仙。也是惩恶扬善,济世扶贫的神仙。'

'虽然散仙和妖仙都是仙人,但他们的实力和真正的仙人比起来还是有很大的距离.

毕竟散仙他们只是元婴渡劫而成的,没有实体不能和真正得仙人比.

但是在修真界他们绝对可以横着走.散仙和妖仙不仅有仙人独有的仙灵之气,还有自己的仙器,和修真者的真原力和法宝根本不在一个档次上没法比.

...

http://www.yixia.net/wuxiaxiaoshuo/14901/476515.html



Interesting link, Lesley. The distinction of all these different kinds of supernaturals is definitely more complicated than I thought.


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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确实比我们想象的复杂 Apr 1, 2008

我称某些翻译者为“半仙”,因为他们并没有实际的工作经验,读一些参考资料就似乎有模有样;这种本领,真正的仙人当然有,等而下之的散仙和妖仙也还有,半仙至少有那么个成为散仙的态势。要分辨出那么多种灵异生物,蛮复杂的嘛。

wherestip wrote:

神 与 仙
lai an wrote:

'八仙均为神仙中的散仙。也是惩恶扬善,济世扶贫的神仙。'

'虽然散仙和妖仙都是仙人,但他们的实力和真正的仙人比起来还是有很大的距离.

毕竟散仙他们只是元婴渡劫而成的,没有实体不能和真正得仙人比.

但是在修真界他们绝对可以横着走.散仙和妖仙不仅有仙人独有的仙灵之气,还有自己的仙器,和修真者的真原力和法宝根本不在一个档次上没法比.

...

http://www.yixia.net/wuxiaxiaoshuo/14901/476515.html


Interesting link, Lesley. The distinction of all these different kinds of supernaturals is definitely more complicated than I thought.


 
chica nueva
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wanderer, 神仙 -> wandering immortal; free spirit Apr 2, 2008

wherestip wrote:

lai an wrote:

'八仙均为神仙中的散仙。也是惩恶扬善,济世扶贫的神仙。'

http://www.yixia.net/wuxiaxiaoshuo/14901/476515.html



Interesting link, Lesley. The distinction of all these different kinds of supernaturals is definitely more complicated than I thought.



Yes, thank you Steve. I seem to have stumbled onto a wuxia site without quite realising. The Dalai Lama and Qu Yuan are two wandering mortals I can think of with special connections to the spiritual realm. Have you read the Li Sao?

supernaturals

神仙 = 1 supernatural being; celestial being; immortal 2 a person who has the power of clairvoyance or who is free from worldly cares (外研社:汉英词典)
神仙 = 1 神话传说中的人物,有超人的能力,可以超脱尘世,长生不老. 2 比喻能预料或猜透事情的人. 3 比喻逍遥自在,毫无拘束和牵挂的人.(现代汉语词典)

free agent = someone who can act as they choose 有自主权的人 (朗文进阶词典)
free spirit - can't find the definition right now.

Zhoudan. 八仙 = the Eight Immortals, so I suggest 'wandering immortal'. But see what the experts think.

BTW the Chinese used to be referred to as 'celestials' in olden 19C colonial days, I'm not sure why. Something to do with the Qing Dynasty I think.


 
chica nueva
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free spirit; lost soul Apr 6, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

wherestip wrote:

a roaming/wandering supernatural being
a spirit
a mythical ghost/creature


Anyone who is absent-minded is called "散仙" in Taiwanese. In German, we call such a person "Trottel" as I introduced the term "Globaltrottel" when I posted a song, "Un trotamundo como yo", sung by Nicola di Bari.

A "Narr (fool)" or a "Trottel (dope)" is usually not even taken seriously by his own wife, like 淳于髡 during the Warrior Time in Chinese hitory.




We have a negative term in English a bit like this too: 'lost soul'. While to be a 'free spirit' is good, to be a 'lost soul' is not.


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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A free spirit with a lost soul Apr 6, 2008

lai an wrote:

free spirit; lost soul

We have a negative term in English a bit like this too: 'lost soul'. While to be a 'free spirit' is good, to be a 'lost soul' is not.


自由的精神、失魂的灵。Hmm..., interesting. Thanks. Actually, we use the term "散仙" in Taiwan to jokingly describe a person who get lost in details.


 
chica nueva
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Hu Shih; free spirit与lost soul Apr 7, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

lai an wrote:

free spirit; lost soul

We have a negative term in English a bit like this too: 'lost soul'. While to be a 'free spirit' is good, to be a 'lost soul' is not.


自由的精神、失魂的灵。Hmm..., interesting. Thanks. Actually, we use the term "散仙" in Taiwan to jokingly describe a person who get lost in details.


That reminds me of Hu Shih's 胡适 famous saying: '大胆假设,小心求证。'

奔放不羁的自我;迷失了"灵魂”的人. That's my best try at this.

Surely Mr Lu Hsun knew something about 散仙.

BTW I thought you were a bit rude to Juan Chen here:
'how could you show up 露面 in the forum'
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/100558-问个关于memership的问题-819476.html#819476

show up = (非正式) 来到;出席 eg He didn't show up at the party until after midnight. 他直到午夜后才在聚会上露面.(朗文进阶词典)

Perhaps it's a misunderstanding?

The other shaft was something that abinitio said, that was refashioned into something rather appalling about vegetables. But he doesn't seem offended. It reminds me of the Capping Magazine humour at my old university, Lincoln, 'scatological'. Did you see Jyuan's follow-up on spring rolls? I laughed when I saw it this morning.

[Edited at 2008-04-07 03:05]

[Edited at 2008-04-07 03:12]


 
chica nueva
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Lu Hsun Apr 9, 2008

I have found a couple of titles in Lu Hsun's 'A Brief History of Chinese Fiction': Account of the Saints 列仙传 and Accounts of Avenging Spirits 冤魂志.

Does this mean anything to anyone, because it means nothing to me. There are bound to be other works, these are just the first two in the index at the back of the book relating to spirits and the like.

[Edited at 2008-04-09 07:28]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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About fictions relating spirits Apr 9, 2008

In Baidu, you can find an article split into 3 parts:

http://hi.baidu.com/����lei/blog/item/808e99dbd3518d65d0164e91.html

The last part is about fictions relating spirits. The conclusion below for you :

  综而观之,鬼书汗牛充栋、不可胜数。这除了有一定的经济制度、社会文化及上层建筑诸因素的相互影响之外,相当重要的原因恐怕是鬼怪有其独特的诱惑力和鉴赏价值。

  其一,鬼怪满足了人的求新好奇的心理。人的心理本能是好奇心强,这是人类发展和社会发展的需要。而鬼书则恰好能起到满足人的好奇心的作用。鬼书一般采用纪异、志怪、梦幻、想象等浪漫主义的表现手法,故事比较生动、曲折,富有感染力。以鬼为题材的文艺作品符合了文艺创作求新求异的发展规律,也就相互得以促进。

  其二,鬼怪便于寄托归属作者的情思。在封建统治者的专制统治下,大兴文字狱。人们很难表达自己的理想、愿望,于是人们采用非人间的形式隐晦曲折地表达出来。这实际上也是作者对当时社会的一种抗争手段。因此上在繁多的鬼书中,我们可以看到谴责贪官污吏的、讥讽人情冷暖的、嘲笑世风淡薄的等等。

  其三,鬼怪作品是人和社会的一面镜子。作者把人和社会的本质对象化在鬼怪之中,使人们在这些作品中能够观照自身,也观照到人间社会。瓮山逸士在给《斩鬼传》作的序中,就直白地写道:“若夫人而鬼矣,未鬼而为鬼,则不尽心人道,日趋鬼途,已非人类,焉得与安分化人之真鬼比?是必斩绝此等。”

  可见,归属因其独特的审美价值和认识价值而得到作者的青睐,一些有见识的作者也充分运用这些价值创作出优秀的文学作品。

  对于中华的鬼文化来讲,其内容包罗万象,鬼的起源、社会属性、鬼书的大行其道只不过是其中很小的一部分,此外还涉及到大量其他的内容,诸如:鬼的分门别类、鬼的奇形怪貌、鬼的品行才情、鬼的居处所在、鬼的体制官阶等等;在此我们就不做更多的阐述了,毕竟我们应该反对迷信、崇尚科学,介绍前述的这些内容也是为了使读者能够更加清楚地认识到鬼怪的本质,并合理地有所取舍地阅读鬼书。


lai an wrote:

I have found a couple of titles in Lu Hsun's 'A Brief History of Chinese Fiction': Account of the Saints 列仙传 and Accounts of Avenging Spirits 冤魂志.

Does this mean anything to anyone, because it means nothing to me. There are bound to be other works, these are just the first two in the index at the back of the book relating to spirits and the like.


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 00:40
Chinese to English
我得顺连 Apr 9, 2008

Thank you very much, Wenjer. From you I learnt about 德,理,情 and 统一战争.
For me, 'dancing in chains' is a discipline (as the poet said).

[Edited at 2008-04-10 04:17]

[Edited at 2008-04-10 07:09]

[Edited at 2008-04-10 07:10]

[Edited at 2008-04-10 08:21]


 
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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)






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