This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
uncinate spurring
shape-ups
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Jun 10, 2021 12:12
2 yrs ago
72 viewers *
English term

[present tense]

English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) English usuage: correct tense / modal verb
I am dealing with the Statutes of a company, which generally uses the French present tense to state the correct procedures to be adopted.

For example, "Les assemblées sont présidées par le gérant ...".

Routinely adding "shall" risks impossible decisions for cases where it is unclear whether the present tense is simply being used to state basic facts (rather than an obligation).

Routinely adding "to be" (e.g. "are to be chaired ...") risks becoming a bit heavy.

Do any fellow translators have a sound advice for this scenario?

xxx
Responses
4 +2 'shall' or 'must'
References
Some guidelines
Change log

Jun 10, 2021 12:21: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (write-in)" from "correct tense / modal verb" to "English usuage: correct tense / modal verb"

Jun 10, 2021 12:43: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "French to English" to "English"

Discussion

Thomas Miles (asker) Jun 15, 2021:
Thanks to all for your help I do not wish to select a right answer, as I am aware that there is no one single correct approach, but I hope the discussion here is useful.
AllegroTrans Jun 10, 2021:
Indeed Thomas But I cannot see a way for anyone to give you a "rule" on this. All I can suggest is total immersion in the use of English in contractual documents. I always start by distinguishing what are contractual obligations - opinions vary between the use of "shall" "must" and "will" but at least be consistent throughout the document. In a preamble, for example, you may find statements about what the parties are attempting to achieve and so a differentiation may be needed from the tenses used for obligations.
Thomas Miles (asker) Jun 10, 2021:
FR-EN This concerns the mapping of English tenses onto French tenses.
AllegroTrans Jun 10, 2021:
You say "Shall" is outdated and ambiguous. The fact remains is that it is standard usage in English language contracts.
Tina Vonhof (X) Jun 10, 2021:
It's the same in Dutch. I usually translate it as 'is' and 'are' for anything that is (or will be) regular procedure. But if it's clearly a rule or obligation, I use 'must'. For example, "a minimum of xx members must be present to vote on yy" or "if xx happens, yy must be notified immediately." I never use 'shall' because it's outdated and its meaning can be misinterpreted.
AllegroTrans Jun 10, 2021:
@ Mark is/are = expresses a current reality (Company xxx is a retail supplier of electronic appliances)
Mark Robertson Jun 10, 2021:
shall/must/will You could use shall, must, will, as follows:

shall = has a duty to
must = is required to (used for all requirements that are not duties imposed on the subject of the clause)
will = expresses a future contingency

See the extensive entry on words of authority in a Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage, Bryan A. Garner, OUP.
philgoddard Jun 10, 2021:
I would say "are" in your example.
writeaway Jun 10, 2021:
This has been shifted to English monolingual This isn't a Kudoz question as such. It's not about a specific term or terminology. It's about the English language and English usage. So I feel you'll get the help/"advice" you are seeking if you ask this as a general English language question

Responses

+2
49 mins

'shall' or 'must'

I normally use 'shall' in these contexts to indicate an obligation, but am aware that it is coming to be seen as rather old-fashioned. See the link for more on this. It is true that you will need to decide from the context where the present tense is being used in French to describe the situation rather than to indicate an obligation, but I don't see a way round this.
Reference:

https://www.plainlanguage.gov/guidelines/conversational/shall-and-must/

Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : I also normally use "shall" to express an obligation, but asker needs to distingush for himself when simple facts are being stated and the present tense is therefore appropriate. There is no "rule" for this
1 hr
neutral Marge Hogarty : I don't think "shall" sounds old-fashioned in legal documents, where requirements are being set forth.
2 hrs
agree writeaway : Since the stated idea in Dbox was to "map English tenses onto French tenses", it sounds like what was being sought was a one-stop shop solution to put on a TM. Too bad language doesn't work like that
5 days
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

Some guidelines

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree writeaway
16 mins
tx
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search