Glossary entry

عربي term or phrase:

المقرطة

أنجليزي translation:

*Democratization*\ achieving False democracy\ forcing democracy

Added to glossary by Abdelmonem Samir
Apr 15, 2006 01:03
18 yrs ago
عربي term

المقرطة

عربي إلى أنجليزي العلوم الاجتماعية حكومي \علم السياسة trade unions, ILO, FTA
بالله عليكم خبروني متى تم إختراع هذه الكلمة ومن هو عبقري زمانه الذي إخترعها؟ لدي شك في أنها تعني "الاتجاه نحو الديمقراطية" أي democratization، ألا أنني لم أتمكن من غوص أسباب إختفاء حرف الدال من الكلمة.
Is this some new trend in making Arabic cryptic? I am all for being creative and innovative, ولكن بتعقل ودون ذبح وسلخ وتخريط.

Discussion

Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
Hey! Give me my 4 points back! :(
Glad that our 'quarrel' turned out to be useful :)
Sam Berner (asker) Apr 15, 2006:
Sense of humour? Nah, he is just outright wicked :-)
I wonder if he enshrined himself, or someone enshrined him for his wickedness ;-)
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
Do not try to pretend that you know better than the reader, as this would be simply called 'CENSORSHIP'! [Hey, reader! I am doing this for your own good!]
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
(negative) "فرض الديموقاطية على الشرق الأوسط". IB, if you translated a neutral word in an oriented text, it will automatically acquire the tone of that text. You do not have to (mis)LEAD it anywhere. Do not pretend to be know b
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
'Forcing democracy' is the only term to have negative implications.
'Democratization' is neutral.
(source) "Democratizing the ME"
(neutral) "مقرطة الشرق الأوسط"
(positive) "دفع الشرق الأوسط إلى الديموقراطية
Sam Berner (asker) Apr 15, 2006:
Clarification, please هذا السؤال صارت مناقشاته أطول من إجاباته - يا عبد المنعم : عشان ما أفهمش غلط... في رأيك اللفظ له معنى سلبى (فرض الديمقراطية عنوة) إذا كان في نص مضاد لأمريكا؟ وعلاء يصر على أن الكلمة لا تحمل سوى معنى محايد (التحول إلى نظام ديمقراطي) مهما كان مضمون النص؟
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
If you happened to find it in an anti-American discourse, then it is not her [the word's] fault! AND a translator should be NEUTRAL and loyal to the text at the same time. i.e. do not LEAD the text.
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
-> Mr. Samir,
Of course I understood what you kindly posted. If it is about who agrees with who, then I may say that you have taken the answer off of the discussion between Sam and me!

مقرطة is neutral, and even positive in a sense.
Sam Berner (asker) Apr 15, 2006:
Under? Neologisms in Arabic, or our perceptions of "bala vs bala'a"? :-)
Fuad Yahya Apr 15, 2006:
Since this is an open-ended discussion (and very engaging), I suggest moving it to the forum. We have had a few such disucssions there before, but not nearly enough.
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
r. :$
[god! on one lousy letter!]
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
anyway, coining neologisms is fun. i remember coining the term 'مكننة الإنسان' [placization of man] in a paper for a conference three years ago. well, let's say they either do not like nietzschian approaches, or they did not understand my pape
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
i know *lol*
Sam Berner (asker) Apr 15, 2006:
I know I am pulling your leg :-)
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
well, *ahm*, it's transliteration for "bla bla bla" ^^;
Sam Berner (asker) Apr 15, 2006:
بلا أم بلاء الإجابة تتوقف على الرأي الشخصي لنوعية "المشاريع" الأمريكية في المنطقة طبعا.
Ala Rabie Apr 15, 2006:
i heard it several times before, and each time it was said by some palestinian politician. "مشروع الولايات المتحدة لمقرطة المنطقة يشير إلى بلا بلا بلا"

Proposed translations

-1
5 ساعات
Selected

*Democratization* achieving False democracy forcing democracy

"Makratta" is a neologism formed by derivation from the term "democratyya" to be the Arabic equivalent for "democratization", however, the Arabic expression acquired negative connotations and implications that are not present in the original (democratization); democratization means achieving democracy or the change from fascism to democracy. In that way its counterpart in Arabic is:
تحقيق الديموقراطية أو إرساء الديموقراطية أو التحول إلى الديموقراطية
On the other hand, "makratta" in the Arabian communities, in most cases, means either "forcing democracy upon them" or "achieving false democracy".
I'm suggesting that when you translate "back" the term "makratta", you take into account the semantic change that the neologism has undergone.




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Note added at 5 hrs (2006-04-15 06:57:10 GMT)
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Referemces:

http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2003/11/723.shtml

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/529140

http://www.cihrs.net/ABOUTUS/aboutus2_A.htm

http://www.islamonline.net/Arabic/politics/2005/02/article08...

http://www.almughtarib.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:TBlac1GSYZUJ:www.egyptia...





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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:31:49 GMT)
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Dear enshrine, please think this examlpe through:

From English to Arabic (No negative implications):

Democratization ------> مقرطة
------> تحقيق الديموقراطية
------> التحول الديموقراطي

From Arabic to English (mostly negative, rarely positive, because of the Arabian context):

مقرطة ------> Foreign powers forcing democracy upon Arabian countries
------> Arab regimes achieving false democracy
------> Or simply democratization (the usual sense)

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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:43:58 GMT)
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"If you happened to find it in an anti-American discourse" That's why I said "in most cases" (check my first answer). In most cases, I FIND IT. It's not an absolute judgment, I left some room for positive attitudes toward the expression, depending on the context."I JUST suggested" taking the attitude of the writter into account (just in case), this is what I call being loyal.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:23:29 GMT)
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"هذا السؤال صارت مناقشاته أطول من إجاباته - يا عبد المنعم : عشان ما أفهمش غلط... في رأيك اللفظ له معنى سلبى (فرض الديمقراطية عنوة) إذا كان في نص مضاد لأمريكا؟ وعلاء يصر على أن الكلمة لا تحمل سوى معنى محايد (التحول إلى نظام ديمقراطي) مهما كان مضمون النص؟"

بالضبط، هذا هو ما قصدته، السياق و موقف الكاتب هما اللذان يحددان ما إذا كان التعبير يحمل دلالة سلبية أو لا. وأنا أعطيت 3 ترجمات توافق 3 سياقات مختلفة.






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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:30:34 GMT) Post-grading
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enshrine, Let me rephrase my opinion in light of what you just said,
"If it is not clear enough for the reader, a true semioilogist would ... etc."

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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:42:20 GMT) Post-grading
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After all, I enjoyed this discussion ver much, enshrine. You have a good since of humour. See you, soon.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Ala Rabie : facism? false!? democratization simply means the transition from authoritarian regimes to democracy, from inside or outside, forced or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratization. مقرطة is not negative whatsoever. د is off for phonetic reasons
3 ساعات
Pardon me, you don't disagree with me at all!, before I start explaining again, I treated "democratization" and "مقرطة" as separate entities, did you get this?
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for the enlightening explanation."
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