Glossary entry (derived from question below)
عربي term or phrase:
المقرطة
أنجليزي translation:
*Democratization*\ achieving False democracy\ forcing democracy
Added to glossary by
Abdelmonem Samir
Apr 15, 2006 01:03
18 yrs ago
عربي term
المقرطة
عربي إلى أنجليزي
العلوم الاجتماعية
حكومي \علم السياسة
trade unions, ILO, FTA
بالله عليكم خبروني متى تم إختراع هذه الكلمة ومن هو عبقري زمانه الذي إخترعها؟ لدي شك في أنها تعني "الاتجاه نحو الديمقراطية" أي democratization، ألا أنني لم أتمكن من غوص أسباب إختفاء حرف الدال من الكلمة.
Is this some new trend in making Arabic cryptic? I am all for being creative and innovative, ولكن بتعقل ودون ذبح وسلخ وتخريط.
Is this some new trend in making Arabic cryptic? I am all for being creative and innovative, ولكن بتعقل ودون ذبح وسلخ وتخريط.
Proposed translations
(أنجليزي)
4 -1 | *Democratization* achieving False democracy forcing democracy | Abdelmonem Samir |
Proposed translations
-1
5 ساعات
Selected
*Democratization* achieving False democracy forcing democracy
"Makratta" is a neologism formed by derivation from the term "democratyya" to be the Arabic equivalent for "democratization", however, the Arabic expression acquired negative connotations and implications that are not present in the original (democratization); democratization means achieving democracy or the change from fascism to democracy. In that way its counterpart in Arabic is:
تحقيق الديموقراطية أو إرساء الديموقراطية أو التحول إلى الديموقراطية
On the other hand, "makratta" in the Arabian communities, in most cases, means either "forcing democracy upon them" or "achieving false democracy".
I'm suggesting that when you translate "back" the term "makratta", you take into account the semantic change that the neologism has undergone.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2006-04-15 06:57:10 GMT)
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Referemces:
http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2003/11/723.shtml
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/529140
http://www.cihrs.net/ABOUTUS/aboutus2_A.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/Arabic/politics/2005/02/article08...
http://www.almughtarib.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:TBlac1GSYZUJ:www.egyptia...
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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:31:49 GMT)
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Dear enshrine, please think this examlpe through:
From English to Arabic (No negative implications):
Democratization ------> مقرطة
------> تحقيق الديموقراطية
------> التحول الديموقراطي
From Arabic to English (mostly negative, rarely positive, because of the Arabian context):
مقرطة ------> Foreign powers forcing democracy upon Arabian countries
------> Arab regimes achieving false democracy
------> Or simply democratization (the usual sense)
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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:43:58 GMT)
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"If you happened to find it in an anti-American discourse" That's why I said "in most cases" (check my first answer). In most cases, I FIND IT. It's not an absolute judgment, I left some room for positive attitudes toward the expression, depending on the context."I JUST suggested" taking the attitude of the writter into account (just in case), this is what I call being loyal.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:23:29 GMT)
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"هذا السؤال صارت مناقشاته أطول من إجاباته - يا عبد المنعم : عشان ما أفهمش غلط... في رأيك اللفظ له معنى سلبى (فرض الديمقراطية عنوة) إذا كان في نص مضاد لأمريكا؟ وعلاء يصر على أن الكلمة لا تحمل سوى معنى محايد (التحول إلى نظام ديمقراطي) مهما كان مضمون النص؟"
بالضبط، هذا هو ما قصدته، السياق و موقف الكاتب هما اللذان يحددان ما إذا كان التعبير يحمل دلالة سلبية أو لا. وأنا أعطيت 3 ترجمات توافق 3 سياقات مختلفة.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:30:34 GMT) Post-grading
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enshrine, Let me rephrase my opinion in light of what you just said,
"If it is not clear enough for the reader, a true semioilogist would ... etc."
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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:42:20 GMT) Post-grading
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After all, I enjoyed this discussion ver much, enshrine. You have a good since of humour. See you, soon.
تحقيق الديموقراطية أو إرساء الديموقراطية أو التحول إلى الديموقراطية
On the other hand, "makratta" in the Arabian communities, in most cases, means either "forcing democracy upon them" or "achieving false democracy".
I'm suggesting that when you translate "back" the term "makratta", you take into account the semantic change that the neologism has undergone.
*:
**:
***:
****:
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2006-04-15 06:57:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Referemces:
http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2003/11/723.shtml
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/529140
http://www.cihrs.net/ABOUTUS/aboutus2_A.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/Arabic/politics/2005/02/article08...
http://www.almughtarib.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:TBlac1GSYZUJ:www.egyptia...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:31:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Dear enshrine, please think this examlpe through:
From English to Arabic (No negative implications):
Democratization ------> مقرطة
------> تحقيق الديموقراطية
------> التحول الديموقراطي
From Arabic to English (mostly negative, rarely positive, because of the Arabian context):
مقرطة ------> Foreign powers forcing democracy upon Arabian countries
------> Arab regimes achieving false democracy
------> Or simply democratization (the usual sense)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-04-15 10:43:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"If you happened to find it in an anti-American discourse" That's why I said "in most cases" (check my first answer). In most cases, I FIND IT. It's not an absolute judgment, I left some room for positive attitudes toward the expression, depending on the context."I JUST suggested" taking the attitude of the writter into account (just in case), this is what I call being loyal.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:23:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"هذا السؤال صارت مناقشاته أطول من إجاباته - يا عبد المنعم : عشان ما أفهمش غلط... في رأيك اللفظ له معنى سلبى (فرض الديمقراطية عنوة) إذا كان في نص مضاد لأمريكا؟ وعلاء يصر على أن الكلمة لا تحمل سوى معنى محايد (التحول إلى نظام ديمقراطي) مهما كان مضمون النص؟"
بالضبط، هذا هو ما قصدته، السياق و موقف الكاتب هما اللذان يحددان ما إذا كان التعبير يحمل دلالة سلبية أو لا. وأنا أعطيت 3 ترجمات توافق 3 سياقات مختلفة.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:30:34 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
enshrine, Let me rephrase my opinion in light of what you just said,
"If it is not clear enough for the reader, a true semioilogist would ... etc."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2006-04-15 11:42:20 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
After all, I enjoyed this discussion ver much, enshrine. You have a good since of humour. See you, soon.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Ala Rabie
: facism? false!? democratization simply means the transition from authoritarian regimes to democracy, from inside or outside, forced or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratization. مقرطة is not negative whatsoever. د is off for phonetic reasons
3 ساعات
|
Pardon me, you don't disagree with me at all!, before I start explaining again, I treated "democratization" and "مقرطة" as separate entities, did you get this?
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for the enlightening explanation."
Discussion
Glad that our 'quarrel' turned out to be useful :)
I wonder if he enshrined himself, or someone enshrined him for his wickedness ;-)
'Democratization' is neutral.
(source) "Democratizing the ME"
(neutral) "مقرطة الشرق الأوسط"
(positive) "دفع الشرق الأوسط إلى الديموقراطية
Of course I understood what you kindly posted. If it is about who agrees with who, then I may say that you have taken the answer off of the discussion between Sam and me!
مقرطة is neutral, and even positive in a sense.
[god! on one lousy letter!]