| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | How to filter KudoZ questions asked by specific askers Autor wątku: Tom in London
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | In complete agreement with writeaway | Nov 3, 2010 |
I think that there is a problem with rules that allow individuals to simply crowdsource their own translation projects in order to make up for woefully inadequate skills.
To my mind, the common-sense solution to the kind of abuse writeaway is referring to would be to empower moderators to, on an individual basis, provide a series of friendly reminders and warnings and, if needed, eventually set limits for such persons. The current Kudoz rules could be revised to allow for such lim... See more I think that there is a problem with rules that allow individuals to simply crowdsource their own translation projects in order to make up for woefully inadequate skills.
To my mind, the common-sense solution to the kind of abuse writeaway is referring to would be to empower moderators to, on an individual basis, provide a series of friendly reminders and warnings and, if needed, eventually set limits for such persons. The current Kudoz rules could be revised to allow for such limit-setting in individual instances in order to prevent abuse.
I am entirely in favor of engendering a friendly environment and policing the Kudoz forum in order to quash egregiously rude behavior (i.e., of the kind referred to by Ryan, Charlie, and others). Yet promoting a professional milieu also has something to do with preventing the kind of abuse referred to by writeway.
[Edited at 2010-11-03 16:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Let's keep this discussion productive | Nov 3, 2010 |
Hi all,
I am removing the last few posts in this thread for two reasons: they depart from the posted topic (http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4 ) , and they also identify participants in a particular situation in KudoZ, albeit without actually naming names, and comment on their deci... See more Hi all,
I am removing the last few posts in this thread for two reasons: they depart from the posted topic (http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4 ) , and they also identify participants in a particular situation in KudoZ, albeit without actually naming names, and comment on their decisions to post (http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 ). Thanks for your understanding, and let's keep the discussion productive.
Regards,
Jared ▲ Collapse
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | A possible solution - not for points | Nov 4, 2010 |
OK, Jared, leaving joking and my hat aside, this remains an issue that clearly concerns and infuriates a great many people whose views and professional abilities are respected by forum users, also evidenced by the number of times it appears under different forms.
Hard working people who accept jobs they can do, with deadlines they can meet, in languages they speak, researching where necessary, naturally feel aggrieved when practically entire documents appear, line by line, and points are a... See more OK, Jared, leaving joking and my hat aside, this remains an issue that clearly concerns and infuriates a great many people whose views and professional abilities are respected by forum users, also evidenced by the number of times it appears under different forms.
Hard working people who accept jobs they can do, with deadlines they can meet, in languages they speak, researching where necessary, naturally feel aggrieved when practically entire documents appear, line by line, and points are awarded for this shooting fish in a barrel exercise. Any comments are met with Rule This and Rule That....and yes, there should be rules but in view of the clear abuse of what the kudoz ethos should be, I propose that it really is time to review them.
It's late now even for this insomniac and I need my three hours, so someone else can think of a formula whereby serial chutzpah-takers can only post not for points questions, and see if people will still be so helpful, or any other solution.
Nos Da
Suzi ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Three ideas for preventing/addressing serial abuse | Nov 4, 2010 |
Following up on writeaway's, Susanna's and my own earlier post:
1.
I like Susanna's "not-for-points" idea. This is something I was thinking of myself after I posted my previous comments in this thread. Such a status could either be automatically triggered after a certain (large) concentration of questions have been posted over a number of weeks, at the discretion of the moderator, or simply as a result of individuals designating themselves as " linguist apprentic... See more Following up on writeaway's, Susanna's and my own earlier post:
1.
I like Susanna's "not-for-points" idea. This is something I was thinking of myself after I posted my previous comments in this thread. Such a status could either be automatically triggered after a certain (large) concentration of questions have been posted over a number of weeks, at the discretion of the moderator, or simply as a result of individuals designating themselves as " linguist apprentices," or something similar. This ties into my second idea.
2.
Introduce the status of "linguist apprentice." Individuals could voluntarily have themselves thus designated (which I think would be a lot more honest, and a lot less damaging to their online image than their sustaining the pretense of their being professional translators while posting hundreds and thousands of questions on easy terms that could be found with minimal effort). Once again, this status could be voluntarily assumed, automatically triggered, or imposed at the discretion of moderators (not arbitrarily, but on the basis of certain identifiable criteria).
Questions posted by "linguist apprentices" could be automatically classified as "not-for-points" and site members could choose to see or filter out questions asked by this category of site user/member.
3.
As I have stated on previous occasions, I think moderators should be empowered to give reminders regarding the need to consult dictionaries, perform web searches, check Kudoz and other glossaries, etc. This can be done privately and in a very professional way. Proz could even provide a basic training session (and require serial abusers to take the session, perhaps).
Once again, the idea is to prevent egregious abuse (i.e., hundreds of questions per month regarding entire documents, and involving easy terms). The idea is not to stigmatize frequent posters who are not crowdsourcing entire documents or making queries regarding terms that could be found with minimal effort.
[Edited at 2010-11-04 11:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Colin Ryan (X) 
Local time: 01:51
włoski > angielski
+ ...
| Thank you, Robert & Susanna! | Nov 4, 2010 |
I agree absolutely with Robert's and Susanna's points. That's a pretty good suggestion.
Unless this abuse of Kudoz is addressed, this point is going to come up again, and again, and again, so it really is in the site staff's interest to actually address it.
Without wishing to offend anyone, I know that I speak for many when I say that the general impression is that site staff are not particularly interested in addressing two specific types of Kudoz abuse, viz:
... See more I agree absolutely with Robert's and Susanna's points. That's a pretty good suggestion.
Unless this abuse of Kudoz is addressed, this point is going to come up again, and again, and again, so it really is in the site staff's interest to actually address it.
Without wishing to offend anyone, I know that I speak for many when I say that the general impression is that site staff are not particularly interested in addressing two specific types of Kudoz abuse, viz:
1. Carpet-bombing Kudoz with 15 questions a day which between them contain a large part of a document, thus getting other translators to do much of the asker's work
2. Points-hunting in Kudoz by unscrupulous persons who, for example, simply copy-and-paste the unedited results of a Google search in the Explanation box
While I realise that the site staff cannot speak freely in these forums, as it would be inappropriate to represent their own personal views, I would very much appreciate an official reply, in absolute terms, that specifically addresses these two points.
[Edited at 2010-11-04 11:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Rachel Fell
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 00:51
francuski > angielski
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
Without mentioning any names...
Certain people periodically appear in Kudoz asking for translations for a string of questions which, when put together, would constitute a complete translation of a paragraph. It seems that this does not infringe any rules because the Moderators never stop these people from doing this.
So...
Just take a look at today's list Tom...
cf. http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/159340-kudoz_abuse-page5.html#1554023
| | | | S E (X)
Włochy
Local time: 01:51
włoski > angielski
| I have actually stopped paying attention to kudoz, due to this problem | Nov 4, 2010 |
Kudoz is presented as a forum in which professional translators can seek assistance from peers with difficult terminology. Kudoz answerers are awarded for their efforts with increased visibility on the proz website. So far, so good.
The reality, however, as I have observed over the last six months, is that Far Too Often askers are clearly unprepared to do the translation work that they have taken on. Being asked to help people who have such an unprofessional approach to translation ... See more Kudoz is presented as a forum in which professional translators can seek assistance from peers with difficult terminology. Kudoz answerers are awarded for their efforts with increased visibility on the proz website. So far, so good.
The reality, however, as I have observed over the last six months, is that Far Too Often askers are clearly unprepared to do the translation work that they have taken on. Being asked to help people who have such an unprofessional approach to translation in order to reap rewards on proz is a bit insulting.
Sure, lots of times questions are asked by professional translators that fit the parameters laid out for kudoz in its ideal form. But this is poorly balanced by the degree to which questions are being asked by those who appear to be woefully incapable of doing their job.
I have elected to throw the baby out with the bath water, and simply avoid kudoz. I believe it is counterproductive to participate in a system that doles out perks for helping people who are abusing the system and who should not be encouraged in their unprofessional approach to translation.
I have tried filtering askers, but in my language pair there are simply too many and frankly, filtering doesn't make the problem go away, it just side steps it.
Kudoz is a great idea. But making sure that it is as great in practice as it is in theory appears to require a considerable amount of policing on behalf of site staff. And it is not clear that this degree of policing is something that proz is willing to take on. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You are not alone | Nov 4, 2010 |
Sarah Elizabeth Cree, PhD wrote:
Kudoz is presented as a forum in which professional translators can seek assistance from peers with difficult terminology. Kudoz answerers are awarded for their efforts with increased visibility on the proz website. So far, so good.
The reality, however, as I have observed over the last six months, is that Far Too Often askers are clearly unprepared to do the translation work that they have taken on. Being asked to help people who have such an unprofessional approach to translation in order to reap rewards on proz is a bit insulting.
Sure, lots of times questions are asked by professional translators that fit the parameters laid out for kudoz in its ideal form. But this is poorly balanced by the degree to which questions are being asked by those who appear to be woefully incapable of doing their job.
I have elected to throw the baby out with the bath water, and simply avoid kudoz. I believe it is counterproductive to participate in a system that doles out perks for helping people who are abusing the system and who should not be encouraged in their unprofessional approach to translation.
I have tried filtering askers, but in my language pair there are simply too many and frankly, filtering doesn't make the problem go away, it just side steps it.
Kudoz is a great idea. But making sure that it is as great in practice as it is in theory appears to require a considerable amount of policing on behalf of site staff. And it is not clear that this degree of policing is something that proz is willing to take on.
Lots of professional translators have stopped 'helping' those who aren't lifting a finger to help themselves and who continue to take on jobs in fields and/or languages they apparently aren't equipped to handle. Many people use Kudoz instead of bothering to do the work themselves and these people seems to view supposed colleagues as two-legged search tools/two-legged dictionaries. Acceptance of bogus answers by such askers also encourages a number of people to answer any and all questions-which is turning Kudoz into a game of those who don't know helping those who know even less.....
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