| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How to deal with translation agents who say they have no contracts and receipts Thread poster: Akiko Eizaki
|
|---|
| I've never thought of it | Nov 12, 2023 |
Zea_Mays wrote: Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
I work with agencies where I don't have to issue invoices but they issue POs for each job to be done and calculate the total amount at the end of month and pay me the lump sum.
How does this work for them in terms of tax law? What they pay you is a cost for them, and to book this correctly they'd need evidence (an invoice) of those costs. You'd have to issue an invoice in any case too for tax reasons. Or does this work differently in your country of residence? I work with agencies with automated invoice issuing (I don't have to send the invoice to them, they prepare it for me), but I've never encountered a business (and country) where _no_ invoice is required. [Bearbeitet am 2023-11-11 14:08 GMT]
Come to think of it, until you pointed out the tax law, I've never thought of it. What I know is that when I first started working with them, I used to issue one invoice at the end of the month for all the jobs completed during that particular month, but they changed their system and said that I don't need to send them any invoices anymore since invoices will be created automatically on their side.
I must say that I have no clue to how the tax system works where my client is located, and personally, it's not my business how they file taxes. Like you say, it may be better to issue an invoice not only for the tax agency but for my personal/business record, but this is not mandatory in my country.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:26
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Emails only? | Nov 12, 2023 |
Akiko Eizaki wrote:
I am sorry for the confusion caused by my poor English.
When I said receipt, I meant INVOICE.
Thank you for your answer.
I did not know that an email correspondence could be a substitute for a contract.
The terms and conditions offered by the translation company in the example are very normal, including the rates, and there are no elements that could be considered fraudulent.
I will do some more searching, including the company's registration information.
"... an email correspondence could be a substitute for a contract... "
I wouldn't rush to rely too much on that.
An email is a very poor substitute for a contract. Especially if it's an "ordinary" email and there is nothing else available as evidence (even cryptographically signed emails are not perfect). And if by bad luck you end up dealing with a crook, you won't have as "evidence" anything else than few very genuine emails from a fake sender.
"A screen shot of your sent items, an log from your exchange server or a printed copy of the email in question hold practically no evidential value, as all aspects of a standard email can be easily falsified and would hold little security under cross examination."
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/using-emails-evidence-court-jacob-budd
Also
Of particular concern is that an email tends to demonstrate less context than a well-prepared letter. It may appear to be discussing one matter when it is really discussing something completely different. Even if both parties to the communication know what is being discussed, this can easily be manipulated to a third party, such as a judge or jury. Additionally, emails can sometimes be easily manipulated, such as the ability to edit the original message that is being forwarded.
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/to-what-extent-can-an-email-be-used-against-you-in-a-case-38187
Most important: an email (even of you can prove the email was not faked) does NOT prove in any way the identity of the sender. A not so small detail, as if anything goes wrong, you can ONLY sue the sender - a person (legal or natural), certainly NOT an email. If you don't know 100% for sure WHO sent you emails, even if you can prove that the emails themselves are real, that "proof" becomes completely irrelevant.
The short of it: rules you can apply when you know who you're dealing with and can trust is one thing - in that case ANY form of communication is good enough. But I wouldn't touch with a bargepole anyone coming out of the blue and expecting to conduct business "by emails only" IF there's not some convincing form of due diligence available. (a profile on a non-offical website on its own proves nothing).
Regarding the "no invoices" mode of operation - they ARE in fact invoices. I've seen many companies (not in translating) being feed up with subcontractors having difficulties with putting together invoices in the correct form and deciding to simply generate "subcontractors' invoices" themselves.
[Edited at 2023-11-12 11:42 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 11:26
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Daryo wrote:
Of particular concern is that an email tends to demonstrate less context than a well-prepared letter.
This is a valid point (though perhaps somewhat off-topic), and it is good to remind particularly younger translators that writing emails that contain all the relevant information that are written in a formal, unambiguous way is very important for running a business. Some newer translators tend to communicate informally even with clients, and assume that the other party will understand the message from subtle cues that are very clear to themselves, but that is poor business practice. No client (except a rank millennial, perhaps) is going to be offended by an email that follows proper letter-writing etiquette and practices. For an email chain to act as a contract or an agreement, it has to be clear and comprehensive. This is why it's a good idea to always summarize the agreement in a final email to the client even after the client had said "go ahead".
| | | | | Paper trails | Nov 13, 2023 |
Daryo wrote:
The short of it: rules you can apply when you know who you're dealing with and can trust is one thing - in that case ANY form of communication is good enough. But I wouldn't touch with a bargepole anyone coming out of the blue and expecting to conduct business "by emails only" IF there's not some convincing form of due diligence available. (a profile on a non-offical website on its own proves nothing).
What use, then, is a PO sent by email?
Do you only work for new customers who mail you paper job requests sealed by a court and signed in blood?!
| | |
|
|
|
| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:26
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Theatrics aside ... | Feb 24 |
Christopher Schröder wrote: Daryo wrote:
The short of it: rules you can apply when you know who you're dealing with and can trust is one thing - in that case ANY form of communication is good enough. But I wouldn't touch with a bargepole anyone coming out of the blue and expecting to conduct business "by emails only" IF there's not some convincing form of due diligence available. (a profile on a non-offical website on its own proves nothing).
What use, then, is a PO sent by email? Do you only work for new customers who mail you paper job requests sealed by a court and signed in blood?!
WOW! "signed in blood"! You really have the talent to make it sound very dramatic! Ever considered a career in directing horror movies?
Theatrics aside, did you notice the "IF there's not some convincing form of due diligence available" bit??
Translated in plain-speak: there's nothing wrong a priori with a "PO sent by email" as long as you know WHO sent it - you already know or checked the company AND made sure you're not dealing with an impersonator.
Websites specialized in "naming and shaming" bad payer companies are littered with the corpses (sorry: never-to-be-recovered debts) and wails of those who thought that "a PO sent by email - AND NOTHING ELSE" is enough.
Unless you want to end up in a personal horror movie of having worked for nothing you need solid due diligence, and that includes far more than "a PO sent by email".
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » How to deal with translation agents who say they have no contracts and receipts | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
