| موضوع میں صفحات: < [1 2] | Trados / Déjà Vu / WordFast دھاگا پوسٹ کرنے والے: Frenchnative Japanese Translation
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| DVX functionnal bilinguism :) | Aug 2, 2008 |
David Turner wrote:
DVX is functionnally bilingual (although it can handle multilingual data)
Not strictly true in the case of DVX because you can have multilingual projects (one source language with an unlimited number of target languages) [/quote]
Yes, I know.
But it handles every source-target pair separately.
I.e. you can't display more than one target language at the same time in one DVX instance and the term definition form is strictly bilingual.
The DVX data structures are functionnally bilingual too.
E.g if you have a multilingual project with EN as source and SP and FR as targets, the SP and FR sentences are obviously coresponding 1:1 but the project TM can't be used for the SP-FR pair, it needs to be converted.
You have no target-target connection.
It's a pain in the neck when you switch frequently source languages in multilingual projects for one domain (a typical situation, a French IT company in Poland using partially English as communication language, the docs may be created in 3 languages depending of various factors).
or even open several sessions of the program at once so as to view projects, translation memories and term databases in different source/target language combinations.
The number of instances has no influence on the number of clicks/keystrokes you must do to enter manually a term in four languages in DVX
If you are "speed optimized", DVX is not a solution for multilingual terminology management.
I think, Trados MultiTerm conception is better here.
Sad but true
In the main MT window, F2, Tab, Tab, Tab, Tab, Enter, F10.
Done.
The DVX terminology management interface should be revamped, I think.
Cheers
GG
| | | | | Multiple languages | Aug 3, 2008 |
But it handles every source-target pair separately.
I.e. you can't display more than one target language at the same time in one DVX instance and the term definition form is strictly bilingual.
Not quite sure what you want to do, but in such a multilingual project with English as source, you can open the TM and/or term base and view the SP and FR targets for each EN entry at the same time or switch the source around to FR say and view the EN and SP targets at the same time.
The DVX data structures are functionnally bilingual too.
E.g if you have a multilingual project with EN as source and SP and FR as targets, the SP and FR sentences are obviously coresponding 1:1 but the project TM can't be used for the SP-FR pair, it needs to be converted.
You have no target-target connection.
It's a pain in the neck when you switch frequently source languages in multilingual projects for one domain (a typical situation, a French IT company in Poland using partially English as communication language, the docs may be created in 3 languages depending of various factors).
A document with three different source languages would be a problem for any program, I would think but with DVX you could create three separate projects for each source language, create three versions of the file(s) called _en, _fr and _pol say, and then import the file(s) into the three projects, setting the parts in the other two languages to hidden text so they are not imported. You would use the same multilingual TM and term data base for each project, with the direction being taken automatically. There would be no need for TM, TDB conversion and you could run the three projects in three simultaneous sessions with the TM and term base being updated automatically in real time in each case.
The number of instances has no influence on the number of clicks/keystrokes you must do to enter manually a term in four languages in DVX
I think you'll find it does because a term entered in one session will be reflected in real time in the other sessions as you're using the same TM or term base "the other way round".
In the main MT window, F2, Tab, Tab, Tab, Tab, Enter, F10.
Done.
That sounds like a lot of keystrokes. In DVX, you just press shift+F11 to enter a term in a termbase.
Rds,
David
[Edited at 2008-08-03 15:15]
| | | | | DVX functional bilinguism... reloaded... | Aug 4, 2008 |
David Turner wrote:
But it handles every source-target pair separately.
I.e. you can't display more than one target language at the same time in one DVX instance and the term definition form is strictly bilingual.
Not quite sure what you want to do, but in such a multilingual project with English as source, you can open the TM and/or term base and view the SP and FR targets for each EN entry at the same time or switch the source around to FR say and view the EN and SP targets at the same time.
Yes, of course.
But it takes time.
I should imagine one almost multilingual layout, something like in Passolo.
Of course, you have only active target language but you can display another column(s) with reference languages.
You have synchronized scrolling etc.
In DVX, you need to do it all manually using several instances.
Of course, I'm happy to have the several independent, fully functionnal instances in DVX, unlike in Trados (including Pro).
The DVX data structures are functionnally bilingual too.
E.g. if you have a multilingual project with EN as source and SP and FR as targets, the SP and FR sentences are obviously coresponding 1:1 but the project TM can't be used for the SP-FR pair, it needs to be converted.
You have no target-target connection.
A document with three different source languages would be a problem for any program, [/quote]
Of course.
But I don't want to say "one project witn 3 source languages" but "successive projects with one source language randomly selected from these 3".
You can't use the same DVX TM if you have a scenario:
Project 1: EN -> FR, PL
Project 2: FR -> EN, PL
For the second project, the existing data for the FR->EN pair will work, of course, but the FR->PL will not.
You have no direct relation in the the DVX TM internal data structures.
So why I say DVX is in functionally bilingual.
In this case, n bilingual data sets doesn't equal ONE true multilingual set.
In fact, it's a problem for almost all CAT tools (of course, including Trados).
But the obligatory target-source structure in DVX makes impossible to create "flat" multilingual reference TMs you can use in any direction for any langage pair.
E.g. you can't create one big EU acquis TM working in this way.
Neither a big MS software strings TM.
Etc.
So why the external TMX viewers are so useful for multiligual data.
I would think but with DVX you could create three separate projects for each source language, create three versions of the file(s) called _en, _fr and _pol say, and then import the file(s) into the three projects, setting the parts in the other two languages to hidden text so they are not imported. You would use the same multilingual TM and term data base for each project, with the direction being taken automatically.
In a bilingual project, it works.
But as I say, the relation between target languages is missing (or rather, it never existed).
So why you must convert the files (in the TM import wizard, you select Main Sentence and Translation for the appropriate languages).
The searches work only between records marked as "Translation" and "Main Sentence", never between "Translation" and "Translation" ones.
There would be no need for TM, TDB conversion and you could run the three projects in three simultaneous sessions with the TM and term base being updated automatically in real time in each case.
As you see, is not exactly the way we want to imagine it.
The number of instances has no influence on the number of clicks/keystrokes you must do to enter manually a term in four languages in DVX
I think you'll find it does because a term entered in one session will be reflected in real time in the other sessions as you're using the same TM or term base "the other way round".
Yes, I know the principle
Now, I work with my wife on 3 networked machines (2 interactive and 1 for batch pretlanslations).
It works like a charm
But it doesn't resolve the multilingual terminology management problems...
In the main MT window, F2, Tab, Tab, Tab, Tab, Enter, F10.
Done.
That sounds like a lot of keystrokes. In DVX, you just press shift+F11 to enter a term in a termbase.
Yep... for one language pair
If you want to enter a term for FOUR languages, you'll see the difference.
The instance/target language switchng in DVX is annoying.
If you want to use directly the DVTDB editing function, it's the same or even worse.
The MultiTerm example I provided here handles FOUR languages.
BTW.
If you enter multiple bilingual pairs for one term in DVX using Shift-F11, it will be no connection between them.
E.g. for EN-FR-SP, you'll have 3 items in your DVTDB, i.e.:
Cancel-Annuler, Cancel-Cancelar, Annuler-Cancelar
instead of one:
Cancel-Annuler-Cancelar.
I wish have a true multilingual term editor/form in DVX.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2008-08-04 01:42]
| | | | | DVX functional bilinguism | Aug 4, 2008 |
You can't use the same DVX TM if you have a scenario:
Project 1: EN -> FR, PL
Project 2: FR -> EN, PL
I think you'll find you can.
For the second project, the existing data for the FR->EN pair will work, of course, but the FR->PL will not.
I think you'll find it will.
If you add a project target language by selecting it from from the drop-down list, you may have to re-attach the TM for that particular language direction (FR -> PL say) in Project properties if you didn't specify it when you first created the project. Perhaps this is what you're missing?
Rds,
David
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| A rectification... | Aug 4, 2008 |
David Turner wrote:
You can't use the same DVX TM if you have a scenario:
Project 1: EN -> FR, PL
Project 2: FR -> EN, PL
I think you'll find you can.
For the second project, the existing data for the FR->EN pair will work, of course, but the FR->PL will not.
Yes, you're right.
Probably I missed something during the DVX evolution.
Thanks for having forced me to retest it!
Generally, it's a huuuge progress in the last builds but the terminology management still needs improvements.
E.g., the termbases merging is welcome...
I think you'll find it will.
If you add a project target language by selecting it from from the drop-down list, you may have to re-attach the TM for that particular language direction (FR -> PL say) in Project properties if you didn't specify it when you first created the project. Perhaps this is what you're missing?
It's no necessary at all
Unlike in DV3, the DVMDB/DVTDB are defined globally.
Cheers
GG
| | | | sylver 
Local time: 09:33
فرانسیسیسےانگریزی
| Wordfast multilingual glossaries | Aug 19, 2008 |
Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:
...
As Lori pointed out, Wordfast glossaries are bilingual only.
Incorrect.
Given that most translators will only use bilingual glossaries, we are used to the typical bilingual Wordfast glossary, but it doesn't mean a Wordfast glossary can't contain more languages.
Glossaries in Wordfast are simply tab delimited text files, but what you put in a Wordfast glossary is up to you.
You could have 4-5 languages in a single Wordfast glossary.
Supposing you work from Eng to French, and have a English - French - Chinese - Spanish glossary, you would simply organize the terms in that sequence in the glossary:
English -tab- French -tab- Chinese -tab- Spanish
Then, when the term shows up, you can enter the French term directly, or open the glossary entry and see all languages stored in the glossary.
Personally, I just translate from English to French so I never needed something like that, but if you want it, it really isn't hard to implement.
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