| موضوع میں صفحات: < [1 2 3] > | Are site suggestions still allowed? (Staff: yes, of course!) دھاگا پوسٹ کرنے والے: Riens Middelhof
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| Yes, that would be better. | Mar 11, 2009 |
Kevin Lossner wrote:
Thanks, Henry, for explaining about the seven hidden posts. However, I still can't see these as a reason for threadlock; wouldn't it be a simpler matter to put the perps on ice for a while and let them cool down or edit their wicked wordZ? I personally didn't think much of the original suggestion, but it wasn't out of line or particularly offensive, and the option was certainly a legitimate issue to discuss. How that particular discussion managed to spin out of control in seven cases is a bit of a mystery, though if I had the time for speculation, I could probably come up with a few theories.
I really do think it would be more productive on the whole to lock down and re-educate the "difficult" individuals than to lock the threads. Let the discussions of the site suggestions, etc. go on.
These are always case by case calls, and our tools are unfortunately relatively blunt right now. It may be difficult to understand unless you have been in the situation, but when things get out of hand, sometimes closing the thread is the only thing sure to restore peace to the environment. In general, though, I think everyone would prefer to see threads go on rather than be terminated abruptly.
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If you had to hide 7 posts in a short space of time (which I'd say is close to/or is a ProZ record) - are you sure the blame rests with the Community?
Uldis
| | | | | Definitions? | Mar 11, 2009 |
diana bb wrote:
How would you define a difficult individual?
...
One that says uncomfortable things?
You want my personal definition or course of action? I let it pass and allow the individuals to advertise themselves in public. When one person decided to carry an argument to my personal blog and make personally insulting comments there, I thanked him by his full name for the contribution and linked back to his web site. And I'm grateful to certain moderators for not censoring similar losses of control in the German forum and elsewhere, because I think they serve a useful purpose.
So I would take that block of ice and chip it up to use in an ice cream freezer or cool my cocktails. However, since there seems to be an urge to censor foolishness instead of allow it to make its contribution to natural selection, and the staff and moderators have the discretion to shut down entire threads or simply muzzle (temporarily or permanently) the individuals who they feel are making the environment too hot, I encourage them to exercise the narrower option. Where I have seen these things get out of hand, the number of suspects is usually rather limited. Think of it like a cop wading into a bar fight and taking out the leader ASAP; things generally calm down, and the drinking and card playing can resume.
Obviously I missed out on the "fun" if seven posts were quashed in a short space of time; if I had seen them, maybe I might have exercised the same judgment and closed the thread - I'll allow for any possibility however doubtful when I don't have the evidence. Maybe in cases like this that "temporary lock" idea that someone floated isn't such a bad idea.
But once again, my general feeling about these issues is that much of what gets quashed probably deserves to stay however uncomfortable some may find it.
****
Edited to correct a malapropism
[Edited at 2009-03-11 23:50 GMT]
| | | | Arnaud HERVE 
فرانس
Local time: 14:44
فرانسیسیسےانگریزی
+ ...
Riens, I think the best solution is that you create a new thread about the possible Chat feature.
I think the whole staff will be very happy to see you do that.
Am I not right, guys? That Riens should create the new thread?
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| Rules enforcement | Mar 12, 2009 |
Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
Sorry Henry
If you had to hide 7 posts in a short space of time (which I'd say is close to/or is a ProZ record) - are you sure the blame rests with the Community?
Uldis
Henry did not blame the community for these actions.
Staff members and moderators may refrain from approving (or remove/hide) postings that violate a rule. This is normal rules enforcement.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | Maria Karra
امریکہ
Local time: 08:44
رکن (2000)
انگریزیسےیونانی
+ ...
Enrique wrote:
Staff members and moderators may refrain from approving (or remove/hide) postings that violate a rule. This is normal rules enforcement.
Regards,
Enrique
Moderators may hide postings and staff may hide and/or remove postings. "Refrain from approving"... I'm not sure what that means. Can we just call it what it is?
This is normal rules enforcement.
Then are you sure the problem isn't the rules?
Sorry for going off topic; hopefully this won't cause staff to lock this thread.
Maria
| | | | | Rules enforcement | Mar 12, 2009 |
Maria Karra wrote:
Enrique wrote:
Staff members and moderators may refrain from approving (or remove/hide) postings that violate a rule. This is normal rules enforcement.
Regards,
Enrique
Moderators may hide postings and staff may hide and/or remove postings. "Refrain from approving"... I'm not sure what that means. Can we just call it what it is?
As you surely know, forum postings from non members who don't have their identity verified require previous approval by a moderator or staff member, who may refrain from aproving the post when it is not in line with site rules.
This is normal rules enforcement.
Then are you sure the problem isn't the rules?
Yes, I am.
Enrique
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
اسپین
Local time: 14:44
انگریزیسےاسپینی
+ ...
| blunt indeed! | Mar 12, 2009 |
Henry D wrote:
... and our tools are unfortunately relatively blunt right now .... when things get out of hand, sometimes closing the thread is the only thing sure to restore peace to the environment ...
Referring to a posting or two of mine in recent weeks: nothing ever got "out of hand" and the only "peace" in question was ProZ's, as far as I could see it, yet my posts were locked.
Furthermore, my contributions are now vetted: even a reply to you that simply took up on a theme you raised, referring to me and my post by name, was not published, which leaves me feeling censored for no just or logical reason.
The "peace to the environment" you refer to isn't so much ours as yours. I think you can't help but notice the "subversive" posts that have appeared in the last day or two. They are subversive precisely in an intention to subvert rules and actions that people here don't feel to be applied entirely fairly.
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Maria Karra
امریکہ
Local time: 08:44
رکن (2000)
انگریزیسےیونانی
+ ...
Enrique wrote:
Maria Karra wrote:
Enrique wrote:
Staff members and moderators may refrain from approving (or remove/hide) postings that violate a rule. This is normal rules enforcement.
Regards,
Enrique
Moderators may hide postings and staff may hide and/or remove postings. "Refrain from approving"... I'm not sure what that means. Can we just call it what it is?
As you surely know, forum postings from non members who don't have their identity verified require previous approval by a moderator or staff member, who may refrain from aproving the post when it is not in line with site rules.
I wrote "Moderators may hide postings and staff may hide and/or remove postings. "Refrain from approving"... I'm not sure what that means. Can we just call it what it is?"
What I meant was that as you surely know, there is no such thing as "refrain from approving", hence my request to call it what it is: "hiding". Maybe it's just semantics to you. (I said "maybe". I'm not speculating, so I hope I'm not violating the rule about speculating on others' opinion. I forgot the number.) To me it's an important difference.
Cheers,
Maria
| | | | | 'not approving' posts; a 'banning' suggestion | Mar 12, 2009 |
Maria Karra wrote:
What I meant was that as you surely know, there is no such thing as "refrain from approving", hence my request to call it what it is: "hiding". Maybe it's just semantics to you. (I said "maybe". I'm not speculating, so I hope I'm not violating the rule about speculating on others' opinion. I forgot the number.) To me it's an important difference.
Cheers,
Maria
Hello Maria, Enrique
1 IMO 'refrain from approving' is correct, for a non-verified non-member such as myself. None of my posts are shown or threads allowed, until they have been approved by a Moderator.
2 And, incidentally, Enrique, if a person is banned from a Non-English Forum, they are banned from all the forums. Can/should this be changed?
Lesley
[Edited at 2009-03-12 07:32 GMT]
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 14:44
جرمنسےانگریزی
Enrique wrote: As you surely know, forum postings from non members who don't have their identity verified require previous approval by a moderator or staff member, who may refrain from aproving the post when it is not in line with site rules.
When I as a non-member wanted to have my identity verified (after attending a moderator-run powwow) I was told that that option was open to members only. So I'm wondering what the law of the land actually is. Can a non-member be identity-verified? Perhaps you could tell me? Thanks in advance.
[typo rectified]
[Bearbeitet am 2009-03-12 10:13 GMT]
| | | | | Yes, non members can have their identity verified | Mar 12, 2009 |
hazmatgerman wrote:
Can a non-member be identity-verified? Perhaps you could tell me? Thanks in advance.
The answer is yes. You will find more information on the corresponding FAQs.
Regards,
Enrique
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| Rules and rules enforcement actions are the same for all the site forums | Mar 12, 2009 |
lai an wrote:
2 And, incidentally, Enrique, if a person is banned from a Non-English Forum, they are banned from all the forums. Can/should this be changed?
Lesley
Hi Lesley,
Rules and rules enforcement actions are the same for all the site forums.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | QUOI
انگریزیسےچینی
+ ...
| On the subject of post hiding and removal... | Mar 12, 2009 |
The current practise is that when a moderator/site staff hides a post or a group of related posts, they just disappear off the face of the earth without a trace. This kind of practice doesn't promote "high standards of fairness, transparency and honesty" and is not in my opinion in line with the Code of Conduct set down by Mr Henry D himself.
The very first sentence of the Code of Conduct says:
The moderators and staff members of ProZ.com aim to operate according to hig... See more The current practise is that when a moderator/site staff hides a post or a group of related posts, they just disappear off the face of the earth without a trace. This kind of practice doesn't promote "high standards of fairness, transparency and honesty" and is not in my opinion in line with the Code of Conduct set down by Mr Henry D himself.
The very first sentence of the Code of Conduct says:
The moderators and staff members of ProZ.com aim to operate according to high standards of fairness, transparency and honesty.
(See: www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/104/)
So I suggest Proz introduce a new rule that when a post is hidden or removed, the moderator or the site staff who has done it must in every instance publicly state the reason or reasons for doing so.
Ray
Enrique wrote:
Henry did not blame the community for these actions.
Staff members and moderators may refrain from approving (or remove/hide) postings that violate a rule. This is normal rules enforcement.
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 14:44
جرمنسےانگریزی
Thank you; I've just sent my application. Have a nice day.
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